Not everyone is meant to be sitting and learning Torah all day. After all who can sit and learn Gemara, Rashi, and Tosphot all day long? And because not everyone can, you get the general case in yeshivas where students that can't learn waste their time and learn pseudo Torah. and that is what makes them into fanatics.
And this I think was the reason for the movement against Musar.
After the age of eighteen only about 5% of people should even open a book. Those that should not but have to because of their social environment get the weirdest ideas. This is what cause the insane religious world insanities that sprout up like mushrooms after a rain.
In the secular world this kids at eighteen have to go to college. They have to get a college degree for many reasons. But this is a travesty. They should not even open a book. They should be out there flipping hamburgers or getting apprenticed into some profession (a kosher one).
They simply can't be sitting all day and learning some real subject like STEM ( science, technology, engineering, and mathematics). This is where all the worship of homsexualism and other mental illnesses comes from.
And kollels have the most terrible effects on people. You pay people to be learning that ought not to be learning and can't learn and should be out working you get what you see. --They certainly are not doing Gemara Rashi and Tosafot. No amount of money in the world will make them look at Tosafot. So you are creating a race of mental retards that can't learn and won't work. And they think they are superior to everyone else.
A normal conversation with one of the the insane religious world goes like this.
Me: "Most people are not interested in sitting and learning. You get armies of teenagers that can't sit and learn, but they don't work either."
The charedi: "The State of Israel is to blame for this. It is because of the State of Israel that people can't work. This is because if they work then they have to serve in the army."
Me: "So let them serve in the army."
The charedi: "They won't do that. That is heresy to them."
[The the insane religious world are against the State, and they are committing treason. And in Torah that is a capital offence.
Besides that I must point out that if the the insane religious world would be in charge, the result would be as disastrous on a global scale as much as it is on the small communities they control. It does not take much imagination to extrapolate from the small scale to large scale.]
So what to conclude is you have 100,000 people in kollels in Israel being supported for learning Torah, that don't want to learn Torah. It is not that they don't want to keep Torah, but they are incapable of learning Gemara, Rashi, and Tosafot.
If you try to engage in a conversation about Torah, their eyes glaze over because they could not care less about what it says in the Torah. They are in kollel for one purpose alone--not to have to go to IDF.
They would rather work. But they can't work because then they would have to enlist in the army. And that is heresy because it means being in the service of the State that they want to destroy.
Then comes the suggestion to take the case to the Hague. The fact that the State would force people to serve in the Army that are conscientious objector. This it is claimed is a war crime.
And though I don't say so, but I think about Frederick the Great, the Emperor the Mozart wrote under. Under his regime there was a large amount of freedom. But not freedom to overthrow the regime. Treason was considered by Frederick as a serious crime. Any group that would have openly advocated treason and the overthrow of the State would have been summarily executed.
Now you can say well that is just Frederick. What about the Torah? But in the Torah also we find treason to be a serious crime. In Hilchot Melachim of the Rambam we also find any person conspiring to take down the king is liable the death penalty.
שיחה רגילה עם אחד מהחרדים הולכת ככה. אתה מציין כי רוב האנשים אינם מעוניינים להיות יושבים ולומדים. אתה מקבל צבאות של בני נוער שלא יכולים לשבת ללמוד אבל הם גם לא עובדים.החרדי אז מציין שמדינת ישראל אשמה בזה. זה, הוא אומר, בגלל המדינה המרושעת של ישראל שאנשים לא יכולים לעבוד. זאת, משום שאם הם עובדים אז הם צריכים לשרת בצבא. ואז אתה מעיר על כך לתת להם לשרת בצבא. ואז הוא אומר שהם לא יעשו את זה. זה כפירה אצלם. אז מה שאתה מקבל הוא שיש לך מאה אלף אנשים בכוללים בישראל נתמכים ללימוד תורה שלא רוצים ללמוד תורה. זה לא שהם לא רוצים לשמור על תורה, אבל הם לא מסוגלים ללמוד גמרא רש"י ותוספות. הם מעדיפים לעבוד. אבל הם לא יכולים לעבוד כי אז הם יצטרכו להתגייס לצבא. וזה כפירה, כי זה אומר להיות בשירות המדינה שהם רוצים להרוס. ואז החרדי מגיש את ההצעה לקחת את התיק להאג. העובדה שהמדינה תכריח את אנשים לשרת בצבא, כי הם סרבנים. זה הוא טען הוא פשע מלחמה. ולמרות שאני לא אומר את זה, אבל אני חושב שעל פרדריק הגדול, הקיסר שמוצרט כתב תחתיו. תחת משטרו הייתה כמות גדולה של חופש. אבל לא חופש להפיל את המשטר. בגידה הייתה נחשבת על ידי פרידריך כפשע חמור. כל קבוצה שהייתה בגלוי מדגלת בגידה והדחתה של המדינה הייתה כבר על הסף להורג. עכשיו אתה יכול להגיד שזה רק פרדריק. מה לגבי התורה? אבל בתורה גם אנו מוצאים בגידה להיות פשע חמור. בהלכות מלכים של הרמב"ם אנו מוצאים גם כל אדם בקשירת קשר להפיל את המלך עלול עונש המוות
What we have from this in a practical sense is that if you are thinking of going to Israel you should avoid the insane religious world neighborhoods because according to the Torah one is obligated to stay away from the wicked. Furthermore one can ask if it is even worthwhile to move there as long as there are groups whose open purpose is to destroy the State. If the State can't remove this pernicious influence from its midst then how can it protect ordinary citizens?
And this I think was the reason for the movement against Musar.
After the age of eighteen only about 5% of people should even open a book. Those that should not but have to because of their social environment get the weirdest ideas. This is what cause the insane religious world insanities that sprout up like mushrooms after a rain.
In the secular world this kids at eighteen have to go to college. They have to get a college degree for many reasons. But this is a travesty. They should not even open a book. They should be out there flipping hamburgers or getting apprenticed into some profession (a kosher one).
They simply can't be sitting all day and learning some real subject like STEM ( science, technology, engineering, and mathematics). This is where all the worship of homsexualism and other mental illnesses comes from.
And kollels have the most terrible effects on people. You pay people to be learning that ought not to be learning and can't learn and should be out working you get what you see. --They certainly are not doing Gemara Rashi and Tosafot. No amount of money in the world will make them look at Tosafot. So you are creating a race of mental retards that can't learn and won't work. And they think they are superior to everyone else.
A normal conversation with one of the the insane religious world goes like this.
Me: "Most people are not interested in sitting and learning. You get armies of teenagers that can't sit and learn, but they don't work either."
The charedi: "The State of Israel is to blame for this. It is because of the State of Israel that people can't work. This is because if they work then they have to serve in the army."
Me: "So let them serve in the army."
The charedi: "They won't do that. That is heresy to them."
[The the insane religious world are against the State, and they are committing treason. And in Torah that is a capital offence.
Besides that I must point out that if the the insane religious world would be in charge, the result would be as disastrous on a global scale as much as it is on the small communities they control. It does not take much imagination to extrapolate from the small scale to large scale.]
So what to conclude is you have 100,000 people in kollels in Israel being supported for learning Torah, that don't want to learn Torah. It is not that they don't want to keep Torah, but they are incapable of learning Gemara, Rashi, and Tosafot.
If you try to engage in a conversation about Torah, their eyes glaze over because they could not care less about what it says in the Torah. They are in kollel for one purpose alone--not to have to go to IDF.
They would rather work. But they can't work because then they would have to enlist in the army. And that is heresy because it means being in the service of the State that they want to destroy.
Then comes the suggestion to take the case to the Hague. The fact that the State would force people to serve in the Army that are conscientious objector. This it is claimed is a war crime.
And though I don't say so, but I think about Frederick the Great, the Emperor the Mozart wrote under. Under his regime there was a large amount of freedom. But not freedom to overthrow the regime. Treason was considered by Frederick as a serious crime. Any group that would have openly advocated treason and the overthrow of the State would have been summarily executed.
Now you can say well that is just Frederick. What about the Torah? But in the Torah also we find treason to be a serious crime. In Hilchot Melachim of the Rambam we also find any person conspiring to take down the king is liable the death penalty.
שיחה רגילה עם אחד מהחרדים הולכת ככה. אתה מציין כי רוב האנשים אינם מעוניינים להיות יושבים ולומדים. אתה מקבל צבאות של בני נוער שלא יכולים לשבת ללמוד אבל הם גם לא עובדים.החרדי אז מציין שמדינת ישראל אשמה בזה. זה, הוא אומר, בגלל המדינה המרושעת של ישראל שאנשים לא יכולים לעבוד. זאת, משום שאם הם עובדים אז הם צריכים לשרת בצבא. ואז אתה מעיר על כך לתת להם לשרת בצבא. ואז הוא אומר שהם לא יעשו את זה. זה כפירה אצלם. אז מה שאתה מקבל הוא שיש לך מאה אלף אנשים בכוללים בישראל נתמכים ללימוד תורה שלא רוצים ללמוד תורה. זה לא שהם לא רוצים לשמור על תורה, אבל הם לא מסוגלים ללמוד גמרא רש"י ותוספות. הם מעדיפים לעבוד. אבל הם לא יכולים לעבוד כי אז הם יצטרכו להתגייס לצבא. וזה כפירה, כי זה אומר להיות בשירות המדינה שהם רוצים להרוס. ואז החרדי מגיש את ההצעה לקחת את התיק להאג. העובדה שהמדינה תכריח את אנשים לשרת בצבא, כי הם סרבנים. זה הוא טען הוא פשע מלחמה. ולמרות שאני לא אומר את זה, אבל אני חושב שעל פרדריק הגדול, הקיסר שמוצרט כתב תחתיו. תחת משטרו הייתה כמות גדולה של חופש. אבל לא חופש להפיל את המשטר. בגידה הייתה נחשבת על ידי פרידריך כפשע חמור. כל קבוצה שהייתה בגלוי מדגלת בגידה והדחתה של המדינה הייתה כבר על הסף להורג. עכשיו אתה יכול להגיד שזה רק פרדריק. מה לגבי התורה? אבל בתורה גם אנו מוצאים בגידה להיות פשע חמור. בהלכות מלכים של הרמב"ם אנו מוצאים גם כל אדם בקשירת קשר להפיל את המלך עלול עונש המוות
What we have from this in a practical sense is that if you are thinking of going to Israel you should avoid the insane religious world neighborhoods because according to the Torah one is obligated to stay away from the wicked. Furthermore one can ask if it is even worthwhile to move there as long as there are groups whose open purpose is to destroy the State. If the State can't remove this pernicious influence from its midst then how can it protect ordinary citizens?
