מסכת שבת פרק כלל גדול there is question on the רמב''ם.He seems to be saying if one forgets all ל''ט אבות מלאכה and their ועונשן then he brings ל''ט חטאות.
Then in what way did he remember שבת?
The son of the רמב''ם, Avraham, said that you have to say the רמב''ם means either forgetting ל''ט אבות מלאכה or ועונשן but not both and all together. Or he forgot the תולדות.
ר' יוחנן אמר שגגת עונש שמה שגגה. ריש לקיש אמר שגגת עונש שמה מזיד.
I think the Gemara asked on the Mishna. Why does it specify the ל''ט? We can all count. It answers to tell us one is liable ל''ט offerings if he forgot all. And then it says that is good to ר' יוחנן but what about to ריש לקיש? In what way did he remember שבת at all? And I think it answers ריש לקיש אמר תחום שבת ואליבא דר' עקיבא.
I mentioned off hand the problem about the רמב''ם to my learning partner.
He said there is no problem on the רמב''ם because it is a an קל וחומר. I can't figure out what he meant. I think what he means is that the קבוצה of all things that are obligated in a sin offering to ר' יוחנן is much larger that the קבוצה of ריש לקיש. In fact it includes everything in the קבוצה of ריש לקיש and then twice as much. So if something is in the קבוצה to ריש לקיש then קל וחומר to ר' יוחנן and by definition then also to the רמב''ם.
But if this is what he meant I have a question. To me it seems that the arrow goes the opposite way. To ריש לקיש a little knowledge is considered a lot. Knowing the עונש is enough to make him מזיד. That same knowledge to ר' יוחנן is considered small. So some small amount of knowledge to ריש לקיש לר' יוחנן might very well considered to be not enough to make him be considered as remembering שבת at all.
Then in what way did he remember שבת?
The son of the רמב''ם, Avraham, said that you have to say the רמב''ם means either forgetting ל''ט אבות מלאכה or ועונשן but not both and all together. Or he forgot the תולדות.
ר' יוחנן אמר שגגת עונש שמה שגגה. ריש לקיש אמר שגגת עונש שמה מזיד.
I think the Gemara asked on the Mishna. Why does it specify the ל''ט? We can all count. It answers to tell us one is liable ל''ט offerings if he forgot all. And then it says that is good to ר' יוחנן but what about to ריש לקיש? In what way did he remember שבת at all? And I think it answers ריש לקיש אמר תחום שבת ואליבא דר' עקיבא.
I mentioned off hand the problem about the רמב''ם to my learning partner.
He said there is no problem on the רמב''ם because it is a an קל וחומר. I can't figure out what he meant. I think what he means is that the קבוצה of all things that are obligated in a sin offering to ר' יוחנן is much larger that the קבוצה of ריש לקיש. In fact it includes everything in the קבוצה of ריש לקיש and then twice as much. So if something is in the קבוצה to ריש לקיש then קל וחומר to ר' יוחנן and by definition then also to the רמב''ם.
But if this is what he meant I have a question. To me it seems that the arrow goes the opposite way. To ריש לקיש a little knowledge is considered a lot. Knowing the עונש is enough to make him מזיד. That same knowledge to ר' יוחנן is considered small. So some small amount of knowledge to ריש לקיש לר' יוחנן might very well considered to be not enough to make him be considered as remembering שבת at all.
