The best support for Reform and Conservative groups is the opinion of R. Shimon Ben Yohai that דורשים טעמה דקרא. [We go by the reasons for the verse, not the literal meaning when the two conflict.]
And there is no mystery about the reasons for the verses since the Gemara itself assumes as a simple matter that we in fact do know the reasons. The only question is when the reason conflicts with the literal meaning.
[The sages that disagree with R. Shimon do not say we do not know the reasons for the verses. They agree we know the reasons, but the question is if to go by the literal meaning, or the reason. But in any case, to me it seems clear that the very concept of ends and means to get to that end implies that the end--the goal-has primary importance over the means. That is the simple implication of the idea of ends and means by definition.]
And the Rishonim (including the Rambam) do in fact state openly the reasons for the verses.
And we in fact see a conflict in so far as that often keeping the literal meaning does seriously conflict with the reasons for the verses.
The Rambam gives the basic reasons. To learn to come to good traits [to be a mensch], not to do idolatry, peace of the State. We see most times that people supposedly keeping the Torah are in serious conflict with all three reasons.
[The opinion of R. Shimon is in Bava Metzia circa page 119 and in other places.]
I am not saying that the actual law is like R. Shimon. Rav Shach asks this question as do others and Rav Shach's answer is elegant. He says the law comes out not like R. Shimon nor R. Yehuda but the first opinion in a Mishna which is a combination of both.
In any case it is hard to know the right path. My basic impression is I should have listened to my parents who knew and understood a lot more about life that I realized at the time. And they were definitely Reform minus some of the problem in Reform like "social justice."
The problem with the religious is they are always looking to add some extra restriction that is not contained in Torah. Then they claim it is from the Torah. And then impose it on everyone else.
And since no one else is convinced of the fraud, they do not accept it. And so the religious do not see secular Jews as human. For any rational human would accept the vast intellectual and moral superiority of the religious people and thus serve them. The religious think being religious absolves them from being decent human beings. They do not realize that Natural Law precedes Divine Law. [The Guide of Maimonides says that the level of natural law revealed to Abraham was needed before there could be the level of Divine Law at Sinai. ]
And there is no mystery about the reasons for the verses since the Gemara itself assumes as a simple matter that we in fact do know the reasons. The only question is when the reason conflicts with the literal meaning.
[The sages that disagree with R. Shimon do not say we do not know the reasons for the verses. They agree we know the reasons, but the question is if to go by the literal meaning, or the reason. But in any case, to me it seems clear that the very concept of ends and means to get to that end implies that the end--the goal-has primary importance over the means. That is the simple implication of the idea of ends and means by definition.]
And the Rishonim (including the Rambam) do in fact state openly the reasons for the verses.
And we in fact see a conflict in so far as that often keeping the literal meaning does seriously conflict with the reasons for the verses.
The Rambam gives the basic reasons. To learn to come to good traits [to be a mensch], not to do idolatry, peace of the State. We see most times that people supposedly keeping the Torah are in serious conflict with all three reasons.
[The opinion of R. Shimon is in Bava Metzia circa page 119 and in other places.]
I am not saying that the actual law is like R. Shimon. Rav Shach asks this question as do others and Rav Shach's answer is elegant. He says the law comes out not like R. Shimon nor R. Yehuda but the first opinion in a Mishna which is a combination of both.
In any case it is hard to know the right path. My basic impression is I should have listened to my parents who knew and understood a lot more about life that I realized at the time. And they were definitely Reform minus some of the problem in Reform like "social justice."
The problem with the religious is they are always looking to add some extra restriction that is not contained in Torah. Then they claim it is from the Torah. And then impose it on everyone else.
And since no one else is convinced of the fraud, they do not accept it. And so the religious do not see secular Jews as human. For any rational human would accept the vast intellectual and moral superiority of the religious people and thus serve them. The religious think being religious absolves them from being decent human beings. They do not realize that Natural Law precedes Divine Law. [The Guide of Maimonides says that the level of natural law revealed to Abraham was needed before there could be the level of Divine Law at Sinai. ]
