One problem of hanging out with any kind of hasidic groups is that is that the main objective of these groups is to bring one close to their deity. If they would be straight up and forward about their intentions it would not be so bad. But they use Torah as camouflage  to hide what they are really up to. [Also it is bad for one's sanity to hang out with insane people..]

I would like to back this up with evidence. Years horrible experiences should be enough. Seeing what they do to others also should be enough. But there has been some writing about this kind of thing already and it does not change anyone's mind. Also I can not write about negative experiences since then I lose my frame of mind and get upset and can't function.


Plus the problem with this is אבק לשון הרע. The dust of Lashon Hara. That is even if you know what you are saying is true, but it will not be accepted and that will cause you to be suspected of saying Lashon Hara is also a kind of "dust of Lashon Hara" even if true and even if you fulfilled all seven conditions of the Chafetz Chaim.

While on that note I have to mention that the seven conditions are only for obligations between man and his fellow man as the Chafetz Chaim goes into in chapter 7 [vol 1]. As for obligations between Man and God that is chapter 4 and the conditions are different. I have certainly fulfilled all the conditions including rebuke. For people that will not accept rebuke you have no choice but to make their actions known so as to warn others. I would rather have never been in a position to know the truth about this. But after I know the truth I have no choice but to make it known. [If I would not know this then I could simply learn Torah. But now there is nothing to do because silence about the terrible evils of these groups is not allowed because of the verse לא תעמוד על דם רעיך Do not stand by while the blood of innocents is spilled.]

I should add that I think some effort should made in the direction of showing that the Lithuanian yeshiva world is the exact opposite of all the above. While far from perfect it certainly comes close to a moral, decent, wholesome society--or at least as close to that ideal that I have seen.

A nice utube about the USA Army   Not Afraid. Trump

Bill Whittle

r12 g minor

Just for the record I am pro Constitution of the USA for a few reasons. Mainly because I see its principles being in accord with the Torah. The Sanctity of Life. Freedom with Responsibility within the limits set by law. There is a command in the Torah "Thou shalt not steal." And the idea behind that command is there is such a thing as private property that no one has the right to touch besides the owner and to whom the owner gives permission. That is even if some group can get the government to do its stealing for them it is still stealing. That is Socialism is ruled out by the Torah. Abortion is ruled out by the Torah. People taking authority at all is ruled out by the Torah. Not just government. The only authority anyone can have by the Torah is what the laws of the Torah already say or by means of contract. And the Constitution is a contract.

This might be a good idea to defend this thesis in more detail. But in short I am against the Democrats and also the Republicans because I do not think either goes by the Constitution. I would rather see someone like Trump that would clean out the Aegean stables of government.

That is from my Jewish point of view. But there is also philosophical justification for this based on Kant and the autonomy of the individual. I have hid myself in the sand in terms of politics the last eight year because was stunned at what was occupying the White House. But it seems like I am not the last American to remember there is a Constitution and a lot of us are angry at the government for taking what does not belong to them.

[In High School we went through USA History and principles very well. . We had to go through the original documents of many parts of USA history. It was probably the most challenging class I ever took. In any case, I gained a great appreciation of the the USA is, and what made it what it is. Seeing it crumble and its founding principles stomped on by the government has been traumatizing.]

I was trying to figure out a good argument for Lithuanian yeshivas. And it occurred to me that that best argument is not a rational argument at all but something that goes much deeper. There is this idea that the soul before it is born into a physical body sees the glory of heaven. It sees Truth, Beauty and Love. Or it sees the virtues. Then it falls and comes into this world. Then it longs to get back to this wondrous vision. But it can't find anything that reminds it of its blessed state before the fall. So it goes around  empty. It is just going through the motions. Then one day it walks into a Lithuanian yeshiva and feels what it has been missing. Truth, Beauty and Love. It can not rationalize what it feels but it knows that this place reminds him of some blessed place before it fell.

But that is not every soul. There are souls that are attracted to ugliness, evil and hate. And there are plenty of  yeshivas that are full of ugliness, hate and gossip. But those places are not Lithuanian. They are counterfeit yeshivas. But there are still many souls attracted to these counterfeit places because their souls are drawn towards the ugliness and gossip

It is a mitzvah to warn people about evil groups. Furthermore even if they do not listen it is still a mitzvah based on the Gra.

The prohibition about slander does not prevent one from warning his children or anyone that will listen about bad groups. The Chafetz Chaim goes into detail about this. In fact the major thing to warn your children about is destructive groups. This is because of the fact that the group one is involved with has the most influence on how one acts and even how one thinks.

The most common defense on any evil group is, "You can't generalize." But that is a false defense. You must generalize.  Group behavior and group tendencies are real things. We tend to think about Nazis that they acted in certain specific ways. We do not say "You can't generalize."

You could go further to say there is such a thing a group merit or group guilt. That is just by being part of  a meritorious group one gains something, and that being part of  an evil group, one loses.



In fact, generalizing is very beneficial and is used quite successfully in many areas of society - such as when the insurance industry analyzes the average frequency of an event (i.e. a house-fire) in order to offer protection to the individual homeowner while still reliably turning a profit. The government generalizes as well when they pass such laws as speed limits with fines for punishment. It is fully understood that not all of the people will reduce their speed, but most of them will and therefore, it works to keep most people driving at a reasonable speed and makes the roads safer - which is the positive result that is being sought.

The religious world is evil. This is generalization based on many years of experience. Not one or two examples. And knowing this I am obligated to warn others.
[I can not go into details in writing about particular incidents. The reason mainly is based on two things. One is it involves saying bad things. And I would rather not dwell on negative things. I am sensitive to that. I can not function at all when my mood is down. I cant learn, I cant write music. I need to run to a mikveh or a stream or river and sometimes that is not convenient. It takes me hours to relax and get into a kind of decent frame of mind. And thinking about hurtful incidents in the past does terrible damage to my psyche. 

[The other reason is even if I need to say something to warn others, I would rather keep it to a minimum because the idea of Lashon Hara became very ingrained in me.] 

]

religious world

The prohibition to speak slander is popular  by people that speak slander. They feel it gives them a pass for all the evil and damage they cause, but shields them from anyone that would dare speak about them.

However that still does not except one from knowing the laws and knowing when and where one must speak up and when he must not.
The basic conditions are different for בין אדם לחברו and בין אדם למקום. [Between man and his fellow man and between man and God.]

The seven famous conditions of the Hafetz Haim are for the first category. [To see it oneself. To give rebuke, etc.]  In any case, it is precisely because of this that I speak up about the religious world seeing their collective guilt and complicity in great evils.
I have mentioned the excommunication that the Gra signed -but the reason is not because I depend on it, but rather that I have seen in real life how everything he said was correct.

Yet still evil people think they can be shielded by means of the Hafetz Haim.
[Like the chicken in the horse stall that yelled at the horses, "We should all stop moving around so we do not trample on each other.]"]



To understand the Hafetz Haim it is necessary to know his sources.This is because seeing from where he gets the Halacha from sheds light on its application.

One thing you do not see in the Hafetz Haim itself is the difference between the Rambam and Rabainu Yonah. Rabbainu Yona does in fact prohibit Lashon Hara even for true things because he needs certain conditions to be meet. These conditions are the sources for the famous seven conditions of the Hafetz Haim. He does not want damage to be caused to the object more than what would be caused if he was judged in Beit Din according to Din Torah. Reb Elhanan Wassermann noticed that to Rabbainu Yonah, Lashon Hara on truth is not forbidden for itself, but because of collateral damage.

 The Rambam wrote  about the “hidden law.”  He wrote that the Torah forbids actions across the board that which should be forbidden in almost all situations, even though the Torah knows if a dire emergency did arise, good people would act outside the law, do what had to be done. See for example Eliyahu the Prophet on Mount Carmel.