It occurred  to me that there is a sort of difficulty in the Gemara  Ketuboth page 45 and Rambam אסורי ביאה chapter 3 halacha 8 of Forbidden Relations..   What I mean is this/ look at Deuteronomy  22 verse 13 and onwards. There you have the law about a girl 12-12,5 years old who is betrothed נערה מאורסה בתולה  that had sex with another man. This is the law that is known as מוציא שם רע. She is stoned.  Then comes the regular law [verse 22] about a married woman. If she had sex with another man, she is choked.  And then comes a law [verse 23] also about a נערה בתולה מאורסה girl 12-12.5 virgin who is betrothed. She also is stoned, but in the regular place of stoning, not at her father's house. 

Now just looking at the verses alone, you would say everything is simple. A girl had sex while betrothed and so she is stoned, If she  had sex after she got married, she is choked. But there is a special case that she had sex, and then got married --and her husband then brought witnesses and she is stoned at front of her father's house. Now off hand, it looks like the entire difference is when the sex was. If while betrothed, she is stoned. If after married, she is choked. But there is a special case where  it seems the sex was while betrothed, and then she got married, and then he husband brings witnesses, and she is stoned at her father's house even though she is now married. But furthermore --looking at the verses you can see that everything depends on when the sex was, not when the case is brought to court.

But since this is different from the regular case of sex while betrothed, so it is possible   that the sex here was after the chupa but before sex with her husband.

But in the Gemara and Tosphot and Rambam it is clear that sex after she got married, but before sex with her husband and then he brings witnesses, then she is stoned. Everything seems to depend on that the sex was before she had sex with her husband and he brought witnesses, They did not come on their own.

Still from the verses themselves, it looks like the sex was while she was betrothed. 

So even though i do not remember the gemara, still i recall that rava derived from somewhere כיוון דאישתני דינא אשתני קטלא  once her category has changed also her type of death has changed. so that if she had sex while betrothed and then married and then witnesses come she is choked. So from where ever rava derives this law, he has managed to show that there is at least one case where the sex was while she was betrothed and yet the type of death is by choking.  

And Rav Shach has a few paragraphs on that Rambam, so i might try to see what he says and if i can find any clarity about this.

 הלא יראתך כסילתיך Is not your fear (of God) your stupidity.  Too many books nowadays claim to be teaching fear of God but are in fact the product of diseased imaginations, [and for this reason the Gra signed the letter of excommunication]. The idea is to cancel books that claim to be teaching Torah but are in fact the opposite. However the Gra is ignored.  

That is the exact reason the Musar movement of Rav Israel Salanter emphasized specifically the books of fear of God of the Middle ages before all the diseased books of later days infected the religious world

 There is a sort of problem in newspapers and in politics --slander- lashon hara. And lashon hara is also on truth unless you have the seven conditions of the Hafez Haim. so while at least for reading newspapers there is some sort of permission because it is supposed tobe true and for benefit, still for politics this does not seem to apply since people commonly say what they themselves know to be false --just in order to gain advantage over the other side.

 There are three places in the gemara that deal with the question when does night start? In tractate shabat it says 13.5 minutes after sunset. 13.5 minutes is the time it takes to walk 3/4 of a Roman mile  [Twilight begins at sunset and ends at 13.5 minutes later.] Then right after that it says when you see three medium stars. Not large ones nor small ones. Then in tractate Peshachim it says after 72 minutes [the time it takes to walk four Roman miles].

Rabbainu Tam says the gemra in Shabat refers to the second sunset. So night really begins at 72 min. This is the opinion of most Rishonim and Rav Hai Gaon. The Gra on the other hand says night starts after 13.5 minutes after sunset and the Gemra in shabat is discussing when people ceased work building the Second Temple. That means when it was dark. Not when the legal night begins.

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There are three places in the גמרא that deal with the question when does night start? In מסכת שבת it says 13.5 minutes after sunset. 13.5 minutes is the time it takes to walk 3/4 of a Roman mile  [Twilight begins at sunset and ends at 13.5 minutes later.] Then right after that it says when you see three medium stars. Not large ones nor small ones. Then in מסכת]סחים it says after 72 minutes [the time it takes to walk four Roman miles]. רבינו תם says the גמרא in דבת refers to the second sunset. So night really begins at 72 דקות This is the opinion of most ראשונים והאי גאון. The גר''א on the other hand says night starts after 13.5 minutes after sunset and the גמרא in שבת is discussing when people ceased work building the Second Temple. That means when it was dark. Not when the legal night begins. הרדב"ז (דוד בן זימרא) כתב שהדעת בפסחים התקיימה לפני שחכמי ישראל הסכימו עם חכמי אתונה. בתחילה החזיק חכמי ישראל השמש בשקיעה נכנס לפרוזדור ואחר כך בלילה עולה מעל השמים. החכמים מאתונה החזיקו שהשמש הולכת מתחת לכדור הארץ בלילה. הדעה על משך הזמן שבין שקיעת החמה הראשונה ללילה שהיא ארבעה מיל הוא על סמך הדעה של חכמי ישראל בטרם ששינו את דעתם.

יש שלושה מקומות בגמרא שעוסקים בשאלה מתי מתחיל הלילה? במסכת שבת כתוב 13.5 דקות אחרי השקיעה. 13.5 דקות זה הזמן שלוקח ללכת 3/4 מייל רומי. [בין השמשות מתחיל בשקיעה ומסתיים ב-13.5 דקות מאוחר יותר.] ואז מיד אחרי זה כתוב כשאתה רואה שלושה כוכבים בינוניים. לא גדולים ולא קטנים. ואז במסכת פסחים כתוב אחרי 72 דקות [הזמן שלוקח ללכת ארבעה מיילים רומאים]. רבינו תם אומר שהגמרא פסחים מתייחסת לשקיעה השנייה. אז הלילה באמת מתחיל ב-72 דקות. זו דעתם של רוב ראשונים והאי גאון. הגר"א לעומת זאת אומר שהלילה מתחיל אחרי 13.5 דקות אחרי השקיעה והגמרא בשבת דן מתי אנשים הפסיקו לעבוד בבניית בית המקדש השני. זאת אומרת כשהיה חשוך. לא כשהלילה החוקי מתחיל

 There is an argument among the Rishonim mediaeval authorities what is the law of a נערה בתולה מאורסה שזינתה a girl [12 years old to 12.5] that is in this intermediate state between betrothal and marriage who has had sexual relations with another person besides her husband. It is the usual case of an argument between Tosphot and the Rambam. [Betrothal is marriage, but before the chupa.]

Just to be clear- a married woman who has sex with someone other than her husband gets the normal death penalty  [choking].\\That is just in the regular laws about עריות forbidden sexual relations in Leviticus.

But in Deuteronomy you get the law about מוציא שם רע which also refers to a married woman --but to a special case of a married woman-- the נערה בתולה מאורסה שזינתה a girl [12 years old to 12.5]

The case you might recall is where a husband makes a false accusation against his wife. He says (after the Chupa, and  they had sex) that he discovered that she was not a virgin. But then it turns out that he was lying. Then he has to pay about $1600 [100 shekels] and 39 lashes. 

But if it turns out to be true she is stoned. 

The case to Rambam is she had sex while betrothed  [ or even after the chupa but before sex with her husband] and thus when the sex with her husband took place, she was already not a virgin. So she is stoned. But here is where the opinion of Tosphot is the law about stoning is parallel to that of מוציא שם רע [slander] that is-- she is stoned only when the husband said to witnesses, ''Come and give testimony.''     

[I admit I am being short here. Sorry about that. Just for the sake of clarity let me add a few details. The case where the husband is found to have lied is when he did ask witnesses to come and they came and said they saw her have sex [on such and such a date and such and such a time] before she was married after being betrothed. They come and say that. Then two other people come along to the court and ask "How could you have seen that? Both of you were with us that that other place that whole day.'' So the husband has to pay the $1600 and gets lashes. But if no second set of witnesses come, then she is stoned. It is a case of a married woman having sex except the difference is that it was while she was betrothed. [Betrothal is marriage but before the chupa.]

[See Ketuboth page 45] 

 Allan Bloom in Closing of the American Mind says as per the title, but shows its deeper roots as being from the ambiguity of what is the ''self''. His solution is more or less along the lines of what you would call classical education. [HE especially recommends The Republic of PLATO.

[I am not clear as to the reason for The Republic since to my mind, the shorter dialogues seem a lot more powerful. But that might just be because of my short attention span. I tend to have the same sort of preference in music for short and to the point rather than long build ups.]

That book Closing of the American Mind is a definite masterpiece, In particular his analysis of the whole problem.--and his solution.

[Even though Aristotle is also great but for what Allan Bloom is aiming at,,- the opening of the American mind,- I agree that nothing could compare to Plato.

Learning Torah tends to be neglected for the fact that many things are substituted for Torah. What defines ''Torah''? The Rambam wrote in his letters  כשם שאין תוספת וגירעון בתורה שבכתב כמן כן אין תוספת וגירעון בתורה שבעל פה. ''Just like there is no adding or subtracting from the written Torah, so is there no adding nor subtracting from the oral Torah.''

That means the actual books that were the redaction of the oral law written down by the sages of the Mishna and Gemara. These and these alone have the right to be called ''Torah''. And learning them is called learning Torah, Later books might have insights and interesting ideas--but they are not ''Torah,''