Nachmanides asks in the first mishna in Ketuboth this. We know that if the husband comes to court and says he found his wife not to be a virgin we believe him until she brings proof that she was. [So she loses the Ketubah and also to one opinion the marriage itself is not valid. [It is like when you buy something and what you get were two different things. The whole deal is null in the first place.] ]

The Gemara says the reason is that the Ketubah is from the words of the scribes, not from the Torah. So if it would be from the Torah she would be believed? And he would need to bring proof? But why? In general when a document comes to court that has a condition stated in in it do not we usually say first show that the condition has been fulfilled and then we can deal with the document?

The Ramban [Nachmanides] says the reason she would be believed is there is a Hazaka and a Rov [prior status and a majority that most women are married as virgins.]

So we see a hazaka (status) alone would not be enough. Rav Shach shows why this is the case from Ketuboth 76. There is an exchange of an ass with a cow. The owner of the ass now get the cow. But when the owner of the cow goes to take possession of the ass he finds it dead. Rav Yehuda said in the name of  Shmuel the owner of the ass has to show it was alive at the time of the deal. Tosphot askes over there but why? The owner of the ass already has a hazaka (status) in the cow. [He has already taken possession,] So should not the other party have to bring the proof the ass was not alive at the time of the deal? Answer. It is only a Hazaka. That is not enough when we need clear proof, not just prior assumptions. So we see from this that Where you need proof a Hazaka (status) is not enough, but a hazaka (status) with a rov (majority) would be. [Why would the Rov help? I did not look into this enough yet. But I assume it comes from that Gemara in Ketuboth where you collect the Ketubah because she got married in a garment that is reserved for virgins. That is a Rov (majority).]

There is such a thing as being too smart. Rav Nahman brings this up in the LeM in a few places but the most famous place is around LeM Vol II, chapter 12. "החכמות מטעות את האדם מאד".

You can see this in universities.  On one hand the stupidest people in universities are the students in the psychology departments. That is those are the students and teaches with the lowest IQ. They mostly have two digit IQs. But among the smartest are in the Philosophy departments. [They are not the smartest which are the Physicists.] But in the philosophy department you see this phenomenon that Rav Nahman talks about. They are too smart. At some point the smartness takes them off on some crazy tangent.

Even in Physics it is not the smartest that make the greatest advances. Anything more than an 150 IQ is  detrimental. The super IQ people that get on game shows are never the ones that make real advances. 

To combine faith with reason

To combine faith with reason was a major goal of the Middle Ages. But by means of Torah scholars that are demons as Rav Nahman [of Breslov] brings in the LeM vol I chapter 12 and 28 the Dark Side now tries to destroy faith under the cloak of faith.[It is like Daniel Defoe wrote that in every generation the Dark Side changes and develops new tactics.]

Another  method by which the Dark Side tries to destroy faith is by the disguise of "reason" which as a political system became Socialism. 

Socialism is not a good thing since I do not relish the prospect of the world de-evolving into socialist banana republics like in Africa or South America. I mean who in their right mind would want to live in Niguarda, the Sudan or Venezuela? You really think socialism is so great the  take a look at how it destroys everything in its path.

 The problem with teachers of religion especially in the Jewish world is actually seen from ancient times. That is the false prophets that were documented in the books of Ezekiel and Jeremiah. And you see this in the Mishna and Gemara. The Mishna brings that the prushim [Pharisees] were מכלי עולם (destroyers of the world). [The group of "prushim" ([Pharisees]) are often confused with the sages of the Mishna,- but these are not the same group. The prushim were the religious fanatics. That would be the religious today. This is the opposite of the sages of Mishna who were not trying to make a show of how religious they were, nor trying to use the appearance of Torah to get others to give them money.

[So even though Rav Nahman of Breslov brings up the problem of Torah scholars that are demons in the LeM Vol I ch 12, he is not the first one to notice this problem]

  Here I would like to answer the question I asked on רב שך.  The question was ר' יהודה and ר' שמעון both hold we go by the דרשינן טעמא דקרא, לר' שמעון תמיד ולר' רק כשהטעם נכתב בתוך הפסוק and yet come to opposite conclusions. The answer is this. ר' שמעון מחזיק  we go by both the reason and the literal meaning. You see this in the case in Sanhedrin כ''א ע''א. He says a king may not marry more than שמנה עשרה and also not even one that might turn his heart. It is ר' יהודה that says we go only by the reason when the reason is written.

So back to our subject about marrying a gentile woman. The reason ר' שמעון says not to marry any gentile woman is not because of going by the reason for the verse, but rather because that is the literal meaning of the verse. In that particular verse the seven Canaanite nations are not mentioned even though that is the larger context there. And if he would only go by the reason for the verse he would forbid only seven nations. And the reason ר' יהודה who is the תנא קמא forbids only seven nations is when the reason for the law is written in the verse he goes only by the reason which applies only to the seven nations since they are specially more attached to idolatry more than any other nations.  

כאן ברצוני לענות על השאלה ששאלתי על רב שך. השאלה הייתה שר' יהודה ור' שמעון שניהם מחזיקים שאנחנו הולכים דרשינן טעמא דקרא, לר' שמעון תמיד, ור' יהודה רק כשהטעם נכתב בתוך הפסוק, ובכל זאת מגיעים למסקנות הפוכות. התשובה היא זו. ר' שמעון מחזיק אנחנו הולכים גם לפי הסיבה וגם משמעות המילולית. אתה רואה זאת במקרה בסנהדרין כ''א ע''א. לדבריו, מלך לא יכול להתחתן יותר משמונה עשרה וגם לא אישה כזו שיכולה להפוך את ליבו. ור' יהודה אומר שאנחנו הולכים רק לפי הסיבה כשהסיבה נכתבת בפסוק. אז חזור לנושא שלנו על נישואין לאישה לא יהודיה. הסיבה שר' שמעון אומר שלא להינשא לאישה לא יהודיה אינה בגלל היותה של הסיבה לפסוק, אלא כי זו המשמעות המילולית של הפסוק. באותו פסוק שבעת העמים הכנעניים לא מוזכרים למרות שזה ההקשר הגדול יותר שם. ואם רק נלך לפי הסיבה לפסוק זה היה אוסר רק על שבעת האומות. והסיבה שר' יהודה שהוא התנא קמא אוסר רק שבעת האומות היא כאשר הסיבה לחוק כתובה בפסוק הוא הולך רק לפי הסיבה שמתייחסת רק לשבע העמים מכיוון שהם קשורים במיוחד לעבודת אלילים יותר מכל עם אחר

 Here I would like to answer the question I asked on Rav Shach in my previous two blog entries.  The question was R. Yehuda and R Shimon both hold we go by the reason for the verse and yet come to opposite conclusions. The answer is this. R Shimon hold we go by both the reason and the literal meaning. You see this in the case in Sanhedrin 21a. He says a king may not marry more than 18 and also not even one that might turn his heart. It is R Yehuda that says we go only by the reason when the reason is written.

So back to our sugia/ subject about marrying a gentile woman. The reason R Shimon says not to marry any gentile woman is not because of going by the reason for the verse, but rather because that is the literal meaning of the verse. In that particular verse the seven Canaanite nations are not mentioned even though that is the larger context there. And if he would only go by the reason for the verse he would forbid only teh seven nations. And the reason R Yehuda who is the Tana Kama [sages] forbids only teh seven nations is when the reason for the law is written in the verse he goes only by the reason which applies only to the seven nations since they are specially more attached to idolatry more than any other nations.  

There is an מחלוקת between ר' שמעון בן יוחאי and the חכמים if one can marry a woman who is a gentile but not from the seven Canaanite nations יבמות דף כ''ג ע''ב.

 There is an מחלוקת between ר' שמעון בן יוחאי and the חכמים  if one can marry a woman who is a gentile but not from the seven nations של כנען יבמות דף  כ''ג ע''ב. To the חכמים this is allowed since the actual verse forbids specifically the seven nations. And in fact that is how the טור decided the halacha which is against the רמב''ם. That verse says more or less לא תתחתן בם בתך לא תיתן לבנו ובתו לא תיקח לבניך Now ר' שמעון says this is not allowed since דורשין טעמא דקרא. The well known question here is clear. ההלכה היא שלא דרשינן טעמא דקרא

 Now רב שך answers based on a גמרא in סנהדרין. In an argument there on page כ''א ע''א the חכמים say a king can not marry more than eighteen wives לא ירבה לו נשים. Now ר' יהודה says he can have more as long as they do not turn his heart, i.e. he goes only  by the reason. ר' שמעון says you go by both the literal meaning and also the reason. So even one that turns his heart, he can not marry. And more than eighteen even like Abigail wife of king David. So what רב שך is saying is the Rambam in fact goes by the first sage תנא קמא not like ר' יהודה nor ר' שמעון. And when the גמרא says the תנא קמא of ר' שמעון can marry a gentile is meaning ר' יהודה. He would allow this because he goes the reason alone. רב שך is saying the verse itself he says is in fact talking about the seven nations but we do not care about that and rather go only by the reason which expands it to all gentiles. THAT IS he is saying the רמב''ם understands that גמרא in יבמות differently that we usually understand it. לי יש קשה. For to ר' שמעון  we go by the reason for the verse and so we forbid marrying all nations עובדי עבודה זרה עכו''ם. And ר' יהודה goes by the reason for the verse when the reason is written into the verse and so he forbids only the seven nations. So I have to admit I am confused here. I assume there must be a way of answering for רב שך but it does not occur to me this minute.  

יש מחלוקת בין ר 'שמעון בן יוחאי לחכמים אם אפשר להתחתן עם אישה שהיא גויה אך לא משבע האומות של כנען יבמות דף כ''ג ע''ב. לחכמים זה מותר שכן הפסוק אוסר רק שבעת האומות. ולמעשה כך החליט טור את ההלכה שהיא נגד הרמב''ם. הפסוק הזה אומר לא תתחתן בם בתך לא תיתן לבנו ובתו לא תיקח לבניך עכשיו  ר’ שמעון אומר שזה לא מותר בגלל שדורשין טעמא דקרא. השאלה הידועה כאן ברורה. ההלכה היא שלא דרשינן טעמא דקרא עכשיו רב שך עונה על סמך הגמרא בסנהדרין. בוויכוח שם בעמוד כ''א ע''א הוא כך. אומרים החכמים מלך לא יכול להינשא ליותר משמונה עשרה נשים לא ירבה לו נשים. עכשיו ר' יהודה אומר שהוא יכול לקבל יותר כל עוד שהן לא הופכות את ליבו, כלומר הוא הולך רק לפי הסיבה של הקרא . ר' שמעון אומר שאתה הולך לפי המשמעות המילולית וגם הסיבה. אז גם אחת שמסירה את ליבו, הוא לא יכול להתחתן איתה. ולא יותר משמונה עשרה אפילו כמו אביגיל אשת המלך דוד. אז מה שרב שך אומר הוא שהרמב"ם למעשה הולך לפי התנא קמא לא כמו ר 'יהודה ולא ר' שמעון. כשהגמרא אומרת שהתנא קמא של ר 'שמעון יכול להתחתן עם גוי פירושו ר' יהודה. הוא יאפשר זאת כי הוא הולך לפי הסיבה לבד. רב שך אומר שהפסוק עצמו הוא אומר מדבר על שבעת האומות, אך לא אכפת לנו מזה, אלא הולכים רק לפי הסיבה שמרחיבה את הפסוק לכל הגויים. כלומר הוא אומר שהרמב''ם מבין הגמרא ביבמות אחרת שאנחנו בדרך כלל מבינים את זה. לי יש קשה. כי לר' שמעון אנו הולכים לפי הסיבה לפסוק ולכן אנו אוסרים להתחתן עם כל העמים עובדי עבודה זרה עכו''ם. ור 'יהודה הולך גם לפי הסיבה לפסוק כאשר הסיבה כתובה לפסוק, ולכן הוא אוסר רק על שבעת האומות. זאת נראית סתירה