There is an argument between Rav Shach and the Chazon Ish [In Laws about Murder in the Yad HaChazaka הלכות רוצח ושמירת הנפש פרק ה' הלכה ט] about when one kills someone else by accident and he is on his way to a refuge city and he is killed by the revenger. It seems like an obvious question. The murderer is on his way to the city where he will be safe. Outside of it he is not safe and can be killed. So let's say he was killed, but the case had not yet come to court.
In the actual verses themselves you see this quandary. The verse says he has to get to the city of refuge to be safe even before the court has tried his case. That is to say in the verse itself there are two cases. One in which he is tried and found guilty of man slaughter by accident and the other case is he is running to the city of safety. In both cases he is safe only there. But how do you know his legal status unless the case has already been brought to court?
[That is the exact point of Rav Shach. The Chazon Ish however thinks the revenger is not guilty of murder if he kills the murderer even before the case has gone to court. That means the Chazon Ish is thinking that you do not have habeus corpus. The court has just to judge the case as best they can see the facts. Was the original murder intentional or accidental or self defense [permitted]. Even without teh murderer being there they can decide. Rav Shach agrees with this. But the point of Rav Shach is that before the court case the murderer is not a גברא קטילא קטל is not someone that the revenger can kill.--even if the case is brought to court and decided later that he was a murderer by accident. But before the case he is just a regular guy.
Rav Shach brings a proof that a court of law that sees someone kill someone else can not become judges because they can not see merit in the guy. [Makot 12] Tospfot understands that to mean they can be unbiased. But Rav Shach shows that the Rambam holds a different reason. That you need a "pesak din" decision of the court. Without that the murderer is not a "bar katala" בר קטלא that is not even obligated in the death penalty until there is a decision of a court.
The question about this is that after the court has decided that he was a murderer by accident then the revenger was as far as I can tell justified. This does not seem exactly parallel to the case of the court that saw some doing murder. That is a case of from now until the future. The case Rav Shach is bringing a proof for has to go in the past. למפרע.
The first proof of Rav Shach seems stronger. There is a case of false witnesses. They said so-and-so murdered on Sunday. Then came other witnesses and said "How could you have seen that? You were with us that whole day somewhere else." So the first set are killed because they wanted to kill. But this applies even if the second set said the murderer did in fact murder but he did so before Sunday. So here we see clearly what Rav Shach is saying. Even after a pesak din the murderer does not become a איש קטילא [condemned to die] in reverse. Only after the pesak.
In the actual verses themselves you see this quandary. The verse says he has to get to the city of refuge to be safe even before the court has tried his case. That is to say in the verse itself there are two cases. One in which he is tried and found guilty of man slaughter by accident and the other case is he is running to the city of safety. In both cases he is safe only there. But how do you know his legal status unless the case has already been brought to court?
[That is the exact point of Rav Shach. The Chazon Ish however thinks the revenger is not guilty of murder if he kills the murderer even before the case has gone to court. That means the Chazon Ish is thinking that you do not have habeus corpus. The court has just to judge the case as best they can see the facts. Was the original murder intentional or accidental or self defense [permitted]. Even without teh murderer being there they can decide. Rav Shach agrees with this. But the point of Rav Shach is that before the court case the murderer is not a גברא קטילא קטל is not someone that the revenger can kill.--even if the case is brought to court and decided later that he was a murderer by accident. But before the case he is just a regular guy.
Rav Shach brings a proof that a court of law that sees someone kill someone else can not become judges because they can not see merit in the guy. [Makot 12] Tospfot understands that to mean they can be unbiased. But Rav Shach shows that the Rambam holds a different reason. That you need a "pesak din" decision of the court. Without that the murderer is not a "bar katala" בר קטלא that is not even obligated in the death penalty until there is a decision of a court.
The question about this is that after the court has decided that he was a murderer by accident then the revenger was as far as I can tell justified. This does not seem exactly parallel to the case of the court that saw some doing murder. That is a case of from now until the future. The case Rav Shach is bringing a proof for has to go in the past. למפרע.
The first proof of Rav Shach seems stronger. There is a case of false witnesses. They said so-and-so murdered on Sunday. Then came other witnesses and said "How could you have seen that? You were with us that whole day somewhere else." So the first set are killed because they wanted to kill. But this applies even if the second set said the murderer did in fact murder but he did so before Sunday. So here we see clearly what Rav Shach is saying. Even after a pesak din the murderer does not become a איש קטילא [condemned to die] in reverse. Only after the pesak.
