In the Holy Bible you sometimes have a punishment that is stated openly but it is hard to find the prohibition. One place this comes up is the case of the rebellious son.
The law of the rebellious son [age 13 until 13 and three months] is a little vague to me right now but mainly the idea is that he is not listening to his parents and he eats a specified amount of raw meat and wine. He is given a warning. "If you do that, you will get lashes." And he says, "I understand and even so I do it." He gets the lashes.
Then later  he does not listen, and before he eats the same amount of meat and wine he is given the same warning, but this time it is said, "If you do that, you will get the death penalty." And he says, "I understands and  even so I do this". Then he is taken out and stoned.
The question is here, "Where is the prohibition?" We have a general principle, "There is no punishment without a prohibition." The 'Rambam says that principle does not apply when the punishment is stated explicitly. [I don't remember the actual proper usage of this principle. I think it came up in Ketubot and Yevamot ]which I learned long time ago and completely forgot.. The Ramban' disagrees and says even here we need an open verse to forbid.
And this idea of the Ramban seem to be the basis for the Tosphot I am about to discuss here.







The Talmud brings a baraita that gives different things for which the verse that forbids them is ''Don't eat on the blood.'' לא תאכלו על הדם  R. Yochanan says it also forbids the rebellious son. Then some person [Rav Avin bar Kahana] says one does not get lashes for them because there are no lashes for anything in which the same verse forbids several different things.

Tosphot [Sanhedrin 63 the second to the bottom Tosphot.] asks: "But it can't get lashes anyway because it is a prohibition that could lead to the death penalty. And also in fact it does have lashes."

You can ask on the first question: The verse, "Don't eat on the blood"לא תאכלו על הדם does not exempt the rebellious son from lashes,  so it can't exempt anyone from lashes. So to find an exemption is only by what the לאו שבכללות a prohibition that includes many things.
But you could defend the question of Tosphot in this way:
 It does exempt from lashes because the rebellious son does not get lashes from that verse, but from the verse that is said in its own place. ויסרו אותו. The point of Tosphot is the reason not to get ashes from our verse is from two reasons and the Talmud only mentions one.



 But then we moved on to the second question of Tosphot where it looks like he is in fact saying that the lashes do come from that verse.
So Tosphot is asking on our Gemara from two sides. He is saying if you assume thus and thus, this Gemara makes no sense. And if you make this other set of assumptions, the Gemara still is hard to understand.

 I think the entire Tosphot is going like the Ramban'.
The 'Rambam would deny that either question is valid. Let us think. the first question says that yes we agree with the Gemara that forbidding lots of things would be a reason not to get lashes for that prohibition. but there is a further reason not to get lashes for it--because it leads to the death penalty.

The 'Rambam would say, "No it does not. Once you know there is a penalty, you don't bother looking for the prohibition. The reason for the death penalty might have been that verse "Don't eat on the blood," but we don't need it to be, and now we know it can't be."

The second question of Tosphot does not even begin if one holds by  the Rambam. To the Rambam the reason for the lashes of the rebellious son is not from that verse because it is a verse that includes other prohibitions.
In any case the Rambam would have to answer the problem of what does Rabbi Yochanan means then and he would say it is just a general hint but it is in fact that the reason for either the lashes or the death penalty.

I am not done thinking about the first question of Tosphot. I am not sure if what I wrote here is really satisfactory or not.

The off-grid, home-school mother of the 10 children who were seized has spoken out on Facebook in defense of her family’s self-sufficient life – and she’s receiving plenty of support.

A note on that article:

I gave up on the USA when they did this to me and placed my children in the homes of child abusers that sexually assaulted my children.

see http://www.offthegridnews.com/

Reb Obadiah Joseph was an important Torah figure but I never went to see him because I figured an Ashkenazic Jew would probably just get the cold shoulder. But he could learn. And the fact is many Sephardim think he was a Tzadik. And that might be true. One person had a daughter and after that for many years had no other children. So he went to Obadiah Joseph  and got a blessing for more children. Then he had another daughter. And he went to the synagogue of Rav Joseph and at the reading of the Torah he asked what to name her, and he was told "Avigail." Then he went back to his seat. As he got back the Shamash [Gabai] came over to him and told him, "The rav wants to talk with you." He went over to Rav Joseph, and Rav Joseph slapped him, and told him "Next time have a boy." The next year, almost to they day, he had a boy.

There was another fellow who had had an operation and for some reason his penis was damaged. There is a legal question about marrying in such a case. So he went to the posek of the Mir Yeshiva in Jerusalem and was told it is forbidden to him to get married. Then he went to a few other Ashkenazic poskim. they also told him it is forbidden to get married and he could never have children.  He went to Rav Joseph and Rav Joseph asked detailed questions about the anatomic problems. He said he could marry and that he would have children. Now he has already two children.

What I suggest for home schooling is a double branched approach.
This is based on the Mirrer yeshiva high school system. They learn Torah in the morning until the time for afternoon prayer. In the afternoon they do secular studies.

Also there is an important dove tailed approach to learning at the Mirrer yeshiva once you get out of high school into the beit midrash [the large study hall for ages 18-22. [The large study hall is actually also for married people kollel. Or come to think of it pretty much for all ages.
At any rate-the morning is for in depth learning and the afternoon is for fast learning.


So what I suggest for people is this. To go though the entire Written and Oral Law, every single last word. (That is the Old Testament, the two Talmuds, and the midrashei halacha and midrashei agada)
Say the words and go on. If you don't understand the first time you will the second or third time.
But also to have an hour session in depth learning

Then for secular learning I suggest the basic program of the Rambam-to learn Physics and Metaphysics. Here also to just plow through the material as fast as possible,-say the words and go on.
But also to have in depth sessions. [Physics has gone further than the Aristotelian Physics the Rambam was referring to-but it still is the same subject matter. See the Guide for the Perplexed for more detail.] (Physics should be first to do relativity, then quantum mechanics and then string theory. And the second session in Math should be Algebra,  Geometry, and then Algebraic Topology.)

Abraham Lincoln was self taught. And this goes back to an old American tradition of self reliance and do it yourself type of thinking.

To make this clear: each session should be about one broad topic. Lets say for example the Talmud. That comes under the broad category of Oral Law. So you go through the Babylonia Talmud, then instead of going back to the beginning, you go to the Jerusalem Talmud, and the the Sifra, Sifrei Tosephta, Mechilta Torat Kohanim--and only then do you go back to the beginning of the Talmud.
Also there should be one in depth session with a learning partner, or a rosh yeshiva. If you are in Kentucky where neither in available you could buy a book of depth thinking like the Avi Ezri of Rav Shach or the Chidushie HaRambam by Chaim Solovitchik.

That is you take a broad category. The same could be for the written Law. read through the entire Torah and prophets in Hebrew from the beginning to the end. [If you keep up with the Torah portion of the week that counts.]

Another broad category is survival skills which also should be done daily.

Ann Rand

It is hard to defend capitalism because of several things. John Locke is the beginning of the empirical school of thought [that all knowledge comes through the senses] which is in close connection with his political ideas. Since there is knowledge that does not depend on the senses a serious foundation of his system is lacking.

The intuitionists Michael Hummer and Caplan are great thinkers but there is a certain quietism about their system.

I think Capitalism and Libertarian ideas [the Tea Party] can be defended by only by the  Kant who sees the individual as the  key. Autonomy. Authority must come from within. That is Kant's Dinge An Sich.

Ann Rand was amazing writer and defender of freedom and democracy, but one needs to defend this system from a philosophical rigorous point of view. It is not enough to defend it vigorously. The reason for this is people are not stupid. They see thinkers of great caliber defending Marxism. The whole structure of leftist Marxism has an array of powerful thinkers.  Freud, Rousseau. They pack a punch. These are very sophisticated thinkers all used in defense of Modern Marxism. The sad thing is they are defending the most murderous corrupt system ever devised by man.

It is not as if you could not support capitalism, freedom and democracy by a similar array of even more powerful thinkers and even more sophisticated--Maimonides, Aristotle, Aquinas, Kant,

I know one person that was interested in converting to the insane religious world . He was talking in glowing terms about the frum world (the insane religious world ) to his father and his father said, "They probably have a few skeletons in their closet."  He did anyway convert. But it is interesting to notice the analogy. Sometimes something looks squeakily clean because they have put all the skeletons away where you can't see them.

Personally, I must admit that when I was planning on going to yeshiva, my father probably said something along the same lines to me.
I also did not listen.
In any case, the places I did go to were probably a lot better than most. But still there is something about my own experience in the frum would which I think indicate that there is something funny about it.
My own approach to this is to say "Well, they are just not keeping the Torah." And I did notice a lot of the teachings of the Shatz have become an integral part of the insane religious world  by way of pseudo Kabalah. In any case, I do think that the insane religious world  is mainly not very kosher. That is as a general rule. But Lithuanian yeshivas and communities founded upon them tend to be very good. So if you want to keep Torah--and that is a good idea--it is important to find a decent Litvak Yeshiva.
But the danger is there are lots of bad influence outside the doors of the yeshiva.

Some of the ways I don't agree with the insane religious world  are in Halacha. Other areas are about the State of Israel. Another area is concerning ethics,- [things that Musar was supposed to correct.]

Israel Salanter

I am pretty sure that Musar is important. One piece of evidence  is that my brothers and myself are on  different paths of Torah. My older brother tends towards the Reform side of Judaism. And yet when I mentioned to him about the book Duties of the Heart (the Chovot Levavaot) (חובות לבבות)  and Fear of God as a principle he was quite positive that that is the right path.
That is even though on the official level there are differences between different branches of Judaism, but for simple Jews there is little doubt of what the basic path is. Fear of God and living like a mensch. [not depending on charity, living according decent moral standards.]
My younger brother is goes to a conservative Shul but I am pretty sure that in essence he agrees with this approach also, though he might not have heard of any particular Musar book.


[I mean on the outside of the spectrum you can find insane Jews that are against the State of Israel.  The extremists don't define Torah. Only Torah defines Torah.



Musar itself  has been hijacked by extremists.
What I think is to stick with the core set of the classical Musar books [חובות לבבות אורחות צדיקים מסילת ישרים] and the writings of the direct disciples of Israel Salanter: Isaac Blasser, Joseph Horvitz, Simcha Zisel, Naphtali Amshterdam.
Isaac Blasser wrote the neoclassical Musar book אור ירשאל