I wanted to introduce a subject that I do not have a lot to say about this minute. Just as an introduction. Bava Kama 13 and 53. [This subject I actually brought up in my ideas on Shas a couple of years ago.][https://drive.google.com/drive/my-drive]
In Bava Kama 53 the issue of two causes for one damage comes up. An ox pushes another ox into a pit. The sages say the owner of the ox pays half and the owner of the pit nothing because it was not his fault that the ox was pushed. If it had fallen that would be different.] R. Natan held if the ox is "tam" [never had gored before then it pays 1/4 and the owner of the pit 3/4. If the ox was muad [had gored before] then both pay 1/2.
The gemara asks what are they holding? That both are thought to have caused all the damage or that each one is thought to cause a half?
The issues are many. What about causes of זה וזה גורם? [This and that caused it]. Or a case a person throws an object down onto a pillow and someone removes the pillow before it it and so the object was broken.
The Gemara on page 13 bring R Aba that said a animal that is sanctified to be a peace offering that gores another animal. One does not take payment from the fats that are offered on the altar. The Gemara asks on this well obviously not. Answer he means one does not get the meat in place of the fat. Rather the owner of the karban (sacrifice) and the owner of the animal that was gored have to divide the total amount.
So teh question is to R. Natan that was mentioned up above. The Gemara answers the case of R Natan was when the gored animal was in the pit so the owner says the pit was what cause d the damage. in the case of the karban [sacrifice] the fats caused damage along with the muscle. It was all just one animal.
This is to me hard to understand since the cases do not seem parallel.
In Bava Kama 53 the issue of two causes for one damage comes up. An ox pushes another ox into a pit. The sages say the owner of the ox pays half and the owner of the pit nothing because it was not his fault that the ox was pushed. If it had fallen that would be different.] R. Natan held if the ox is "tam" [never had gored before then it pays 1/4 and the owner of the pit 3/4. If the ox was muad [had gored before] then both pay 1/2.
The gemara asks what are they holding? That both are thought to have caused all the damage or that each one is thought to cause a half?
The issues are many. What about causes of זה וזה גורם? [This and that caused it]. Or a case a person throws an object down onto a pillow and someone removes the pillow before it it and so the object was broken.
The Gemara on page 13 bring R Aba that said a animal that is sanctified to be a peace offering that gores another animal. One does not take payment from the fats that are offered on the altar. The Gemara asks on this well obviously not. Answer he means one does not get the meat in place of the fat. Rather the owner of the karban (sacrifice) and the owner of the animal that was gored have to divide the total amount.
So teh question is to R. Natan that was mentioned up above. The Gemara answers the case of R Natan was when the gored animal was in the pit so the owner says the pit was what cause d the damage. in the case of the karban [sacrifice] the fats caused damage along with the muscle. It was all just one animal.
This is to me hard to understand since the cases do not seem parallel.
