Gemara Shavuot מ''גע''ב 44 a שבועות

The מחלוקת between רש''י and רבינו חננאל. The  גמרא original question was this: is there an מחלוקת between שמואל and רבי עקיבה and רבי אליעזר? The  גמרא answers no. One is when the מלווה explained and the other case is when he did not. רש''י says the case of שמואל is when he did not.
To me it makes sense to say רבינו חננאל must have meant that the  גמרא did not use the word "מלווה" because it would make no sense for the מלווה to explain the  משכון is for the whole loan if that would weaken his position. 
Now I wonder if going back to the original position of the  גמרא as I mentioned in the above essay is related to this?  For I have been suggesting that the  גמרא did go back to its original position according to תוספות and the הרי''ף. So now understanding this original position makes sense.

And the fact of the matter is according to this idea of mine that רבינו חננאל is when the לווה spoke and רש''י is when the מלווה spoke we come out with the outstanding and amazing conclusion that there is no argument.
If the לווה spoke he increased his power and so if the מלווה lost the משכון it goes for the whole loan. If the מלווה spoke then it was he who increased his power and the  משכון is only according to it monetary value.

Furthermore according to what I wrote before that the cases in בבא מציעא ק''ד and שבועות מ''ד are different this also might make  a difference. That is: I wrote שבועות is when the  משכון was lost and the  גמרא in בבא מציעא is when the loan was not paid back and so the מלווה can go after the whole  משכון. Going after the whole משכון might be when it was the מלווה who spoke. The case in שבועות is when the לווה spoke. And so these two are not disagreeing at all.
And this idea that the different  גמרא in different places do not disagree is certainly a starting axiom  of תוספות.
This might help us in terms of ראש חודש also.
 I wrote in my little booklet עיוני בבא מציעא that the two גמרות in ראש השנה and סנהדרין seem to disagree. The גמרא in סנהדרין the day of ראש חודש does not depend on the סנהדרין and to one opinion in תוספות that means the מולד even though you can never see the actual מולד
The  גמרא in  ראש השנה makes clear everything depends on the ability to see the מולד. To resolve this it is possible to say the difference is when there is a sitting סנהדרין or not.

schizoid typal personality types.--they are anything but maladjusted when it comes to reproduction.

Dr Hoffman  at Irvine has some articles that are very suggestive of the system of thought of Kant. I am pretty sure he has not heard of the Kant approach for otherwise I think he would have mentioned it. 

I saw Dr Hoffman mentioned on this blog

amerika

ted talk dr hoffman  fitness cancels perception of all of reality


This explains schizoid typal personality types.--they are anything but maladjusted when it comes to reproduction. It is them and their children and friends that get all the good shiduchim [marriage proposals]. 


Even though their perception of reality is highly flawed.

You have to say this was the implied approach of the Rambam as per his idea that even natural law of Avraham the Patriarch had to be revealed by God and could not have been known by reason. This is implied in other places in the Guide and in the Eight Chapters {on Avot} where the Rambam continuously makes a distinction between perceiving the difference between true and false and knowing the difference between right and wrong.

But to claim the Rambam had already worked out a system like Kant would take a lot more than a few hints here and there. It would take a detailed study of the Guide for the perplexed with knowledge of Aristotle to  even begin to get an idea of what he was talking about. Sadly knowledge of Aristotle nowadays is very superficial and of the Guide even less so.

A comment about women today in the West and why it is important to learn Musar

Faithless Cynic said...

There is another factor in play with White males. The verminous, hateful women that are available nowadays would sap anyone's drive. As an example, take my wife please ( with a hat tip to Rodney Dangerfield ) I have tried to be a good husband, building a business and working any scut [thankless menial errands] jobs I could during hard times. My reward for this effort? My feminist wife fucking HATES me. How bout that for incentive to work hard?. Work hard for someone who hates you. I stay in this marriage to avoid losing ALL my assets.

LEARN FROM MY EXAMPLE AND DO NOT MARRY!

9:39 AM

From this interesting blog


We know from the Rambam (Maimonides) that the laws of the Torah do not change according to the times. But on the other hand we also know from the Rambam the laws were made to specification according to the times. Therefore times do not change. The same idolatry that existed at the time of the giving of the Torah exists now, but in different form. Now it is worship of dead people, instead of sticks and stones.
We know the place of the husband and wife and their roles were declared by the Torah. But the idea of Saadia Gaon and the Rambam is this does not change. Their roles and obligations are today just as they were specified in the Torah.

Obligations of marriage are well outlined in the Shulchan Aruch by Joseph Karo. There was a great little booklet put out by a teacher in the Litvak NY Yeshiva Torah VeDaat that was an amazingly simple but deep introduction to the laws of nida and marriage.

My own opinion abut nida is to learn the Tur with the Beit Yoseph. No where else is explained so clearly the difference between nida and zava

[nida i even days then dip [total ] in naturalbody of water. Zava is if she sees blood for more than even days

]

I would like to divide human problems into different areas, physical and biological, psychological, spiritual, super-organism, social meme's etc.

The Musar (Ethics) movement of Israel Salanter deserves more attention than it gets. Its claims are great.

The way to understand this is to see the beginning of Isaac Blazar's book the אור ישראל. Plus you have to see the lectures of Sapolsky at Stanford. And then you need to put 2+2 together to realize the vast implications of what Israel Salanter was implying.

I would like to divide human problems into different areas,  physical and biological, psychological,  spiritual, super-organism, social meme's etc.

What Sapolsky is suggesting is schizoid personalities comes from biology. What people call nowadays a chemical imbalance. That is the source of all shamans and people that make  a living by meta magical thinking.  But others sources of human problems come from attitudes. or social memes picked up the super organism. Others have some spiritual component. Some are genetic and hard wired. Some are software--not hard wired. That is attitudes or reactions that have been absorbed into ones personality but are like software programming and can be easily changed.

I could go on and on but you get the idea.

The claim of Reb Israel Salanter is that learning Musar is a cure for all of the above mentioned aliments. And he is referring to a limited number of books. To him, not anything that talks about things that sounds like Musar are authentic Musar. They most often are pseudo Musar. Phoney and opposite in effects.
You know the Drill. Authentic Musar is Medieval Musar. There was something about that time period that the spirit of the fear of God existed in a way that got condensed and distilled and bottled into the works of Ethics written during that time period. [Much like Hegel claims about the Spirit.]
Phony Musar works just as well as taking phony aspirin.

r51 e minor 6-8 time Edited  r51 midi  r51 nwc

Plato was not thrilled with the role of arts and thought that they are destructive of morals and justice. In Western Europe, in civilization,  there was a kind of awareness of this problem and they sought to combine the Arts with a kind of spirit of "up", a lifting people to a higher plane of morality and justice.

There were probably aware of this because of reading Plato.

Mediaeval Ethics, Musar, Pirkei Avot and learning Gemara in depth.

 The year before I went to the yeshiva called Shar Yashuv in Far Rockaway I spent a lot of time on Pirkei Avot with Shimshon Refael Hirsches' Commentary. In Far Rockaway the attitude was to plunge the students into hard core lumdut [deep learning of Talmud] as soon as possible on the theory that if one does not get it then and there, one will never get it. And I have seen this theory is substantiated in fact.

Learning Pirkei Avot today I would recommend with Avot DeRabbi Natan, the Gra the Rambam and Shimshon Refael Hirsch also.

But that is for Musar.[Learning Ethics= "Musar"] 

As for Gemara, I would in fact recommend going as deeply as possible as soon as possible-because otherwise people never get it at all. I would prioritize going deep into the Gemara with the Avi Ezri of Rav Shach.[Rav Elazar Menachem Shach from the Ponovitch Yeshiva in Bnei Brak]. [Why is learning in depth important? According the Hegel once  a  people stops questioning its institutions and beliefs, then Spirit  dies and cannot 
further develop.]

What happens when people do not learn Gemara in depth at the very beginning of their yeshiva years is a kind of self delusion. They think they understand that which they do not understand. This is different than you find in other fields in which there are experts that know the different between real expertise and phony. In yeshivas nowadays the phonies are the majority. To find the real thing you have to dig deep or go to authentic yeshiva like Ponovitch or the Mir in NY. 

In other words the problem of phonies  is unique in the Torah world, and does not have an equivalent or parallel in the academic world.



[You could take instead of Rav Shach's book the book of Reb Chaim Soloveitchik or his disciples Reb Baruch Ber or Shimon Shkop. But  Rav Shach is  easier to understand.]

In short what I recommend is medieval ethics plus the oral law.

Blacks as group behavior

I think Blacks are more interested in taking down the USA than in who will pay for things after whites are gone. [That is Blacks as group behavior and attitude. Individuals can and sometimes are completely different than the bell curve of their group. That is because people have free will. But that does not change the fact that there is such a thing as group behavior. And in particular group behaviors as directed towards a certain goal. For example Muslim behaviors to destroy Christianity and Israel.