An ox that gores a cow [and it is the first time] is obligated in half damages. To R. Akiva half the ox already belongs to the owner of the cow so if that owner sanctifies 1/2 the ox (note 1), it is sanctified. [Bava Kama 33a]. My question here is the principle that if one has an object that is not in his domain, he can not sanctify it. [The normal such case is one has given over an object to his friend to guard, and the friend denies it, --he can not sanctify it because הוא שלו אינו ברשותו he owns it, but it is not in his domain.] The question here seems strong because Tosphot says the owner of the ox is not actually obligated until he stands in court, even though the 1/2 ox belongs to the damaged person. [Tosphot bases  that on false witnesses that say so and so killed on Sunday. Other witnesses say to them you could not have seen that because you were with us on that day, but on a different day even months  before that time so and so killed. The false witnesses are killed because even though the event already happened, and the murderer had killed, still he was not brought to court. So the false witnesses are killed. Makot pg 5a. Tosphot is difficult to understand here, but the Tosphot Shantz makes the intention clear.] And the question is even stronger according to the approach of Rabainu Chananel and the Rambam that the ox itself is not owned by the owner of the cow until standing in court. You can see this in the Rambam by the fact that he holds that if the ox went up in value by itself, the owner of the cow does not receive any more money than the half damages. Laws of Damages 7:12  

This seems like an obvious question, but I bring it up just in case. I still have to see the great Litvak sages who deal with this subject and I suspect that Rav Shach might very well bring this up. Besides him, I see there are a few other important Litvak sages that have written on Bava Kama [Rav Nachum of the Mir, Rav Shmuel of Ponovitch, and the Even Haazel by R. Isar Meltzer. bli neder, i will try to see what they write on this difficult subject   [Sadly the roshei yeshiva at the Mir in NY did little or no writing. At least they made tapes of Reb Shmuel Berenbaum's last seven years of classes,-- but it would take a massive amount of effort to get them into readable Hebrew.--all classes were in Yiddish.]

Possible answer: Rambam laws of vows 12:10 if a woman says to her husband the work of her hands is sanctified to Him who made them, he still can benefit from the work of her hands because they are under obligation to him. This is so even though freeing a slave, hametz and and sanctification override monetary obligation, but the sages made the obligation to  the husband  to be stronger. so here in our case of an ox that causes damage,  the owner of the cow should be able to sanctify the ox because the ox is at least under obligation to him sanctifying the ox should override the ownership of the owner of the ox. the cases are different, still I think this might be the answer. [the case of the wife is that she owns her hands but they are under obligation to her husband so her sanctifying them should be stronger than in our case where the owner of the cow owns the ox but it is not in his domain.

Another possible answer is that perhaps this Gemara is going like the opinion that half damages is monetary. And this would fit in better with the language of the Gemara that says that R.Akiva holds the owners of the ox and cow are partners, and it is hard to say that something owned together by partners is not in the domain of one of them. And thus the Gemara would be explained according to the opinion that half damages is a penalty, and thus the owner of the cow does not have any ownership of the ox until standing in court    

I noticed in Rav Shach laws of buying and selling 22 law12 that the Rambam and Tosphot hold for holiness of body, the animal does not need to be in the domain of the one who sanctifies it, he only needs to own the animal and so our gemara here might hold that way.--later after writing this blog i noticed the Tosphot Rabbainu Peretz brings up this issue    

     

(note 1) This means that  a person says, "This object is dedicated to the Temple". Sometimes this might  mean he sanctifies an animal as a sacrifice. But it can mean the object is given to the Temple. Then the people in charge of the Temple can use the object or they can sell it and use the money for the upkeep of the Temple/   

later note: I saw today the Rosh brings up this issue in Tosphot HaRosh. He brings from Rav Meir Halevi that the sanctification goes back in time,-  from the time he acquires the animal back to the time he sanctified it. But (as Tosphot pints out) that is like Abyee (in Pesachim page 30), not like Rava. and it is hard to say that our whole subject here is coming not like Rava and thus against the halacha (established rule).

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 an ox that gores a cow [and it is the first time] is obligated in half damages. To ר'  עקיבא half the ox already belongs to the owner of the cow so if that owner sanctifies 1/2 the ox, it is sanctified. [בבא קמא ל''ג ע''א]. My question here is the principle that if one has an object that is not in his domain he can not sanctify it. [The normal such case is one has given over an object to his friend to guard, and the friend denies it, he can not sanctify it because הוא שלו אינו ברשותו he owns it but it is not in his domain.] The question here seems strong because Tosphot says the owner of the ox is not actually obligated until he stands in court even though the 1/2 ox belongs to the damaged person. [תוספות bases  that on false witnesses that say so and so killed on Sunday. Other witnesses say to them you could not have seen that because you were with us on that, but on a different day [even months  before that time] so and so killed. the false witnesses are killed. Even though the event already happened, and the murderer had killed, still he was not brought to court. So the false witnesses are killed. מכות ה' ע''א

Answer. רמב''ם הלכות נדרים י''ב הלכה י' if a woman says to her husband the work of her hands is sanctified to Him who made them, he still can benefit from the work of her hands because they are under obligation to him. This is so even though freeing a slave, חמץ and and sanctification override monetary obligation, but the חכמים made the obligation to  the husband  to be stronger. So here in A case of an ox that causes damage,  the owner of the cow should be able to sanctify the ox because the ox is at least under obligation to him sanctifying the ox should override the ownership of the owner of the ox. Even though this is a stretch, i think i might answer my question 

the cases are different, still i think this might be the answer. [the case of the wife is that she owns her hands but they are under obligation to her husband so her sanctifying them should be stronger than in our case where the owner of the cow owns the ox but it is not in his domain.      

Another possible answer is that perhaps this גמרא is going like the opinion that half damages is monetary. And this would fit in better with the language of the גמרא that says that ר' עקיבא holds the owners of the ox and cow are partners, and it is hard to say that something owned together by partners is not in the domain of one of them. And thus the גמרא would be explained according to the opinion that half damages is a penalty (קנס) and thus the owner of the cow does not have any ownership of the ox until standing in court    

I noticed in רב שך הלכות מכירה כ''ב הלכה י''ב  that the רמב''ם and תוספות hold for holiness of body, the animal does not need to be in the domain of the one who sanctifies it. He only needs to own the animal.  Our גמרא here might hold that way.

Later note: I saw today the רא''ש brings up this issue in תוספות הרא''ש. He brings from רב מאיר הלוי that the sanctification goes back in time,  from the time he acquires the animal back to the time he sanctified it. But (as תוספות points out) that is like אביי (in פסחים ל'), not like רבא. and it is hard to say that our whole subject here is coming not like רבא and thus against the הלכה (established rule).

     

שור שנגח פרה [וזו פעם ראשונה] חייב בחצי נזק. לר' עקיבא חצי השור כבר שייך לבעל הפרה אז אם הבעלים הזה מקדש 1/2 מהשור, הוא מקודש. [בבא קמא ל''ג ע''א]. השאלה שלי כאן היא העיקרון שאם יש לאדם חפץ שאינו בתחום שלו הוא לא יכול לקדש אותו. [המקרה הרגיל כזה הוא שאדם נתן חפץ לחברו כדי לשמור, והחבר מכחיש אותו, הוא לא יכול לקדשו כי הוא אינו ברשותו. הוא הבעלים שלו, אבל זה לא בתחום שלו.] השאלה כאן נראית חזקה כי תוספות אומר שבעל השור אינו חייב בפועל עד שיעמוד בבית דין אף על פי שחצי השור שייך לניזוק. [תוספות מבססים את זה על עדי שקר האומרים כך וכך הרגו ביום ראשון. עדים אחרים אומרים להם שלא יכולתם לראות את זה כי הייתם איתנו ביום זה, אלא ביום אחר [אפילו חודשים לפני הזמן הזה] כך וכך הרגו. עדי השקר נהרגים. למרות שהאירוע כבר קרה, והרוצח הרג, עדיין הוא לא הובא לבית המשפט. אז עדי השקר נהרגים. מכות ה' ע''א

והשאלה עוד יותר חזקה לפי גישת ר' חננאל והרמב''ם שהשור עצמו אינו בבעלותו של בעל הפרה עד שעומד בבית דין. אתה יכול לראות זאת ברמב''ם בכך שהוא קובע שאם השור עלה בשווי ממילא, אין בעל הפרה מקבל יותר כסף מחצי הנזק. בהלכות נזקי ממון ז' הלכה י''ב

תשובה. רמב''ם הלכות נדרים י''ב הלכה י' אם אשה אומרת לבעלה מקודשת מעשה ידיה למי שעשה אותן, עדיין יוכל להפיק תועלת מעבודת ידיה כי הן חייבות לו. כך אף על פי ששחרור עבד, חמץ והקדש גוברים על חיוב ממון, אבל החכמים עשו את החיוב לבעל להיות חזק יותר. אז כאן במקרה של שור הגורם נזק, בעל הפרה צריך להיות מסוגל לקדש את השור כי השור לפחות מחויב עליו ולכן קידוש השור צריך לעקוף את בעלות בעל השור.

המקרים שונים, אבל עדיין אני חושב שזו יכולה להיות התשובה. [ענין האישה הוא שהיא בעלת ידיה אבל הן מחויבות לבעלה ולכן הקדש שלהן צריך להיות חזק יותר מאשר במקרה שלנו שבעל הפרה הוא בעל השור אבל זה לא ברשותו

תשובה אפשרית נוספת היא שאולי הגמרא הזו הולכת כמו הדעה שחצי נזק הוא כספי. וזה ישתלב טוב יותר עם לשון הגמרא האומר שר' עקיבא מחזיק בעלי השור והפרה שותפים, וקשה לומר שדבר שבבעלות שותפים יחד אינו ברשות אחד מהם. . וכך היה מבואר הגמרא לפי הדעה שחצי נזק הוא עונש (קנס) ובכך אין לבעל הפרה כל בעלות על השור עד שיעמוד בבית דין

שמתי לב ברב שך הלכות מכירה כ''ב הלכה י''ב שהרמב''ם והתוספות מחזיקים לקדושת הגוף, אין הבהמה צריכה להיות ברשות המקדש אותה, הוא רק צריך בעלות. הגמרא שלנו כאן עשויה להחזיק כך..

היינו שהגמרא מכוונת לקדושת הגוף וזה לפי רב אשי בכתובות נ''ט שמסיק רב אשי שם קונמות קא אמרת שאני קונמות שקדושת הגוף נינהוא וכן משמע בתוספות קידושין ס''ג ד''ה וידיים וכן פסק הרמב''ם בנדרים פרק י''ב הלכה י' לפי פירוש הכסף משנה

הערה בהמשך: ראיתי היום שהרא"ש מעלה את הנושא הזה בתוספות הרא"ש. הוא מביא מהרב מאיר הלוי שהקדשה חוזרת אחורה בזמן,- מרגע שהוא רוכש את הבהמה חזרה להקדשה. אבל (כפי שמציינים תוספות) שזה כמו אביי (בפסחים דף ל'), לא כמו רבא. וקשה לומר שכל הנושא שלנו כאן בא לא כמו רבא ובכך נגד ההלכה (הלכה קבע)

Paying people to learn Torah, or to teach Torah, or to judge according to the law of the Torah is all against the Torah

 I have not been able to see why the State of Israel should give money to yeshivot, nor to religious judges. I think the main reason for this fact is that one of the first tractates I ever learned was Ketuboth. So when I got to the last chapter [page 105B], I got the idea that paying people to learn Torah, or to teach Torah, or to judge according to the law of the Torah was all against the Torah. [Even though that Gemara deals with judges, I was aware of other places where the prohibition of learning or teaching for pay is forbidden. bava batra chap. 1] If you look at that Gemara in ketuboth ,you will see that even taking money from public funds is forbidden. The only two cases of permission are payment for taking time off one' regular work. The first kind of permission is when it is payment for work that is not obvious,-  and the second is payment for work that is obvious. But in both cases, it has to be a case where one has some other kind of work, and then people come and want him to judge a case. [It can not be for hypothetical work.]The obvious type is when one has a fixed salary. The non obvious type is for example one its in a store, and the amount he would get per hour is not clear.

There is a Rambam [Shekalim] which brings that there can be judges that receive money from the temple funds [לישכת הגזית] to judge cases of robbery, but that has to be understood in accord with the other place where the Rambam says a person that receives money to judge--all his judgements  are null and void. There [in laws of shekalim] the Rambam is only dealing with the question from where their payment would come from -in a case where paying them would be permitted. 

    I admit I was part of the kollel system until I got to Israel and then the contradiction between what the Torah says and the kollel system became too much for me so I dropped out and depended on trust in God. Then my trust in God ran out,  and I decided to work, and then things went south. But getting back to trust in God never worked again, so that is when I decided that I already needed to find a decent wholesome way of making a living and that is when I went to the Polytechnic Institute of NYU.  so i feel at this point that it makes sense to dispose of a system that claims to be learning and teaching Torah in direct contradiction to what the torah says

Thus I think if people need charity because of being poor, that is fine. But not if they say, ''It is because of learning Torah.'' That just makes Torah into a mode of making money  If people lie about Torah, can they really have any respect for Torah? Or rather perhaps they have found it a convenient way to get money?  

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 One of the major points of the Gra that I think is important to emphasize is that every word of Torah weighs a much as all the other commandments.  Mainly that means the Old Testament the two Talmuds plus the Midrash. But in a certain sense it would include commentaries in so far as the commentaries   help in understanding even if they are not in fact part of the Oral and Written Law.

But this category of what explains the Law comes the Gemara itself according to the Rambam in  Laws of Learning Torah chapter 3 and that includes Physics and Metaphysics as he explains in the introduction of the Guide for the Perplexed.

I would to bring here the importance of a great book I have been looking at recently,-- the Even ha'Azel by Rav Isar Meltzer --a friend of Rav Shach. So when I say to get through the two Talmuds I mean with Tosphot [and Rashi when needed] Maharasha and the basic Litvak sages that bring to light very important aspects in the Gemara. [I do not mean just to run through it, except in the afternoon period which should be set aside for ''bekiut''. Fast learning is important as Rav Nahman of Breslov said in the Conversations of Rav Nahman 76 and which Rav Shick made a whole booklet out of. Fast learning is mentioned in the gemara Avoda Zara page 19.But that is for the afternoon period. The morning hours ought to go for preparation for the class of the Rosh Yeshiva your own study in the Avi Ezri, or the Hidushei HaRambam by Reb Haim of Brisk ]

i would like to mention here a subject i saw in the even haazel. let us say an ox gores a cow. there is paid 1/2 the ox and 1/2 the cow as it says somewhere in exodus. if the owner of the ox raises the value of the ox all the increase goes to him. but if the owner of the cow increased the value of the ox or it went upin value by itself, the tur writes the increase goes to him. but the rambam writes the owner of the cow gets only 1/2 damages from the cow even if it went up in value.  i have not written about this for a while because rav shach doe not bring up this issue and r. isar meltzer has a very long and difficult section on it which i am barely scratching the surface of. rav isar melzar says the reason for the rambam i that to r. akiva [whom we poskin like] the damaged person does not gain possession of the ox until after standing in court. this of course is a perfect answer however i seem to recall that rav shach said somewhere that the damaged person gains possession right away--but that might have been where he was explaining the raavad, so i am not sure if there is any difficulty, untili can recallwhat rav shach wrote. 

   When the Rambam mentions learning physics and metaphysics my feeling is that even though he says he is referring to how these subjects were understood in ancient Greece, I think you have to expand the definition to refer to Modern Physics and Metaphysics. But the later is harder to know. When the Rambam refers to Metaphysics that refers to the collected lectures in the book of Aristotle by that title. But nowadays I think you would have to include Kant and Leonard Nelson. Nelson started the new  Friesian-.SCHOOL; but even that needs modification as Bernays [one of his disciples] pointed out. 

[personally, i think it is a tragedy that leonard nelson is unknown.]

  Nelson was ignore, not from lack of quality, but from academic philosophy falling into the mud of analytic philosophy. They ignored real quality. 

  The fallacy of Analytic Philosophy is that analyzing language can not tell us anything about reality. It is hard to know smart people could fall into that. Analytic Philosophy is about as deep as a mud puddle. some people think that there are other approaches in philosophy after kant that can replace kant but i do not think that is right. 

I know there are people that think one ought to learn Torah alone, but that is more along the lines of the rishonim who held that way. But that is not the opinion of the Rambam or the Chovot Levavot.

[In Physics I suggest trying to get through every basic step from Newton until Einstein, Heisenberg, Feynman, and Susskind in the sense of "Bekiut" i.e. saying the words in order until you finish each book at least four times, and also listen to the lectures.

 my basic idea  about learning is different than that of universities in the USA. in the USA and the west in general there is an emphasis on finding what you are good at and have natural talent towards. and while i can see the justification in that approach, i have to say  that it does not seem very much geared towards the kind of goals that is have in mind in learning. to me there are things that one must learn whether he is talented or not. and there are things one must not learn whether talented or not.

 for example pseudo sciences like psychology, one must not learn even if they draw one in by their poison's sweetness. one the other hand there are things one must learn whether they appeal to one or not, like learning Torah. that is the old testament and the two talmuds with tosphot maharsha and the basic achronim like rav shach, rav isar meltzer, and the other gedolai Lita. plus two things the rambam emphasized--physics and metaphysics as you can see he mentions in the mishna torah and the guide. but since these are hard to understand i recommend the fast kind of learning  brought in the talmud--always one should be  גורס i.e. just say the words in order even if one forgets and even if one does not even know what one is saying.

I am sure my grandparents were relived that my dad was working on the  ultra secretive B-29in the USA rather than going over with the ground troops on D-Day. Even so I am sure their prayers for his safety never ceased until the end of the war. At least i can be proud that the B-29 Enola Gay is the airplane that ended the war. He remained in top secret  USA projects until around the 1970,s--like the U-2 and SDI  

''All who add to the mitzvot subtracts from them.'' ''כל המוסיף גורע''

 Even though there is some reason for a woman to wait seven  clean days, but that this depends on a  custom  brought in the Gemara that ''the daughters of Israel wait seven clean days even for a drop like a mustard seed'' is not really a good reason-- because to the Bach that means the color of mustard. A different reason would be like the  the Rambam that  straight nida blood [mentral cycle] and ziva [blood seen not at the regular time of seeing.]blood depend on an order of days that starts from the first time she sees blood-i.e. 7-11, 7--11,etc. But that  is not the way most Rishonim count the days. To most Rishonim each time a woman sees blood starts the start of day of nida. [That means the way to count is thus. Seeing blood on one day after a regular time since the last time is the start of days of nida. And days of nida are only seven days. If she see once or twice or the whole seven days makes no difference; she goes into a natural body of water the night after the seventh day. But if she sees on the eight day, that is a small zava-- i.e., she waits one day and goes into a natural body of water. If she sees again, that is still a small zava. But if she see three times during the 11 day  stretch of time after that seven starting time means she is a large zava and needs to count seven clean days.] And my general approach is that there is no reason to look for extra restrictions. If someone wants to be extra strict, that is fine. But they ought not make that seem like an obligation for everyone. [See the Ramban quoted in the Tur who counts the days in this way..] 

boys are made of snips, snails and puppy dog tails

For a man to call himself a woman can not change his molecular structure.  Since boys are made of snips, snails etc., while girls are made of sucrose and spice, that that DNA molecular structure can not be changed by calling it a different name. It would take a great deal of effort to turn a snail into sugar or spice. Even the basic elements are different.

reference: What are little boys made of?

What are little boys made of?
  Snips, snails
  And puppy-dogs' tails
That's what little boys are made of

What are little girls made of?
What are little girls made of?
  Sugar and spice
  And everything nice [or "all things nice"]
That's what little girls are made of

 A case of doubt about 4 or five damages (five oxen for one ox and five sheep for one sheep ) is an argument between the Rambam and the Raavad. The argument is if the owner of the injured ox has grabbed the ox that caused the damage. To the Rambam [laws of theft 2. law 12] he can keep what he grabbed, but the Raavad has several questions on that. It is more than what he damaged, and there is a doubt so no court that has authority to decide. The answer to the first question,  Rav Shach suggests that only half damages we say if he grabbed  he can keep [which is an open gemara- a person that grabs half damages can keep it until the court convenes and decides the case ], but in our case of four or five damages not. 

so rav shach seems to be saying that  in our case  of 4 or 5 times the damage would the raavad hold you take away the ox if it has been grabbed==even if not a doubt. only if it is a case of half damages that you do not take away the grabbed object. i mean to say that rav shach does not refer to the aspect that our case is one of doubt.  

For some reason, Rav Isar Meltzer did not suggest this answer, but rather refers this subject to an argument between the Rosh and Rabbainu Yona in Ketuboth pg 20. [paragraph 13 in the Rosh]-

Also he mentioned to look at the Rosh in Bava Kama 15 [paragraph 20 in the Rosh]. The Rosh brings there Rav Meir HaLevi who held תופס חצי נזק אין מוציאים מידו ( We do not take half damages away from one who grabs them) except for 1/2 damages-- which would work fine here for the Raavad except for the fact that the Raavad elsewhere in the Rambam holds we do not take half damages away from one who grabs them in general. So Isar Meltzer says the Raavad holds only in a case of doubt do we take away the  half damages because it is like a guarantee for a loan. and in the case of doubt for a guarantee for a loan we would hold  we do not take  away from one who grabs them. But here its is a ''kenas'' punishment for the damages, not monetary.

 The Litvak yeshiva world i have complaints about but also deep respect. The Torah Greats were of course all from the Litvaks--Reb Chaim of Brisk, Rav Shach, Rav Kinyevsky. But there is a general ignorance of the signature of the Gra on the famous letter of excommunication.-- Plus there is a lot of disrespect towards the State of Israel. There is also a sort of ''super-organizim'' complex about it, a kind of group mentality which I tend to dismiss as not being in accord with the Torah. we are all Jews and all of u are obligated in all the commandments=especially learning Torah--the Written and Oral Torah. There is no subdivision in Israel except that some keep some commandments and others keep others. The obligations between man and man is the are where fry Yidden do best. Learning and keeping the obligations between man and God is where the Litvaks do best. There is no aspect of moral or mental superiority by which group one is born into. Everything depends on one' personal commitment and free will to do God's s Will. Even being born Jewish means nothing but having to keep more commandments. You might note that the entire book of Nahum was a prophecy given to Ninve--the capital city of the Assyrian Empire--a sworn enemy of Israel.